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80. THOMAS LATHON CLOPTON JR.118 was born on 26 September 1908 in GONZALES, GONZALES COUNTY, TEXAS, USA.119 Copy of birth Certificate #132955, book 27/233 #33040, obtained from
county courthouse, the state of Texas, county of Gonzales, by Morris L.
Clopton. Birth Certificate indicates mothers name was Rachel Francis
Crouch. Morris, Ruby Irene (Smith), Betty Florene (Clopton), and Dawn
Marie Clopton were doing research here in December 1992.
Born in old Braches house on Peach Creek. Morris has several pages of
information on the old Braches house. He died on 13 September 1981 in AUSTIN, TRAVIS, TEXAS, USA.120 Died in the hospital in Austin, Texas at approximately 2:30AM. Morris L.
Clopton was at his side when he died. He was buried on 16 September 1981 in LOWER KNOBBS CEMETERY, LEE, TEXAS, USA. Daddy, Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr. is buried in the lower Knobbs cemetery
next to Hugh C. Clopton, his grandfather. Daddy's brother Archie Lathon
and mother Rachel Modean Clopton are buried on the other side of Hugh C.
Clopton. My grandfather Thomas Lathon Clopton Sr. and his second wife Rebecca
Arminte (Brown) are buried in the upper Knobbs cemetery.
MY DADDY.
13 August 1992
Dawn Marie Clopton repeatedly expresses to me that the old names and dates are interesting but the real interest lies in the recounting of the stories about individuals. With that in mind I am beginning a tryst with my mind in an attempt to recall all I know about my Mama "Ruby Irene(Smith) Clopton"and Daddy "Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr.". I have some tapes that were made while talking to Mama and as future conversations take
place I will attempt to put them to paper. The man I knew as Daddy was born 26 September 1908 in Gonzales, Texas, the ninth child of eleven children born to Thomas Lathon Clopton Sr. and Rachel Modean Crouch (I now have documents that lead me to
believe Rachel's middle name was Francis; daddy's birth certificate plus 1910 census list Rachel F. as wife of Thomas.) I received a phone call early Saturday morning the 12 of
September from Mama telling me that Daddy was in bad shape having had a stroke during the night Friday night. Mama told me that Daddy would not go to the hospital unless I would come take him. I quickly drove from our house in Round Rock, Texas to
Daddy's and Mama's house. We helped Daddy get dressed and I took him to the doctor on 35th street. The doctor had Daddy undress and performed several test on Daddy. On one occasion while resting between test Daddy became concerned about how dirty his fingernails were, so I got out my pocket knife and cleaned his fingernails for him. The doctor informed me that we should admit Daddy to the hospital. Daddy was somewhat agitated that we were placing him in the hospital because he said he would never get out if we put him in the hospital. I know I tried to relive his concern but have no idea what was said. We put Daddy in the hospital and began the wait to see if Daddy was going to be alright. Mama stayed as long as she could, then was going home to rest. When she was leaving Daddy asked Mama to kiss him on the lips instead of the
cheek. That was very special because Daddy and Mama were never lovey dovey or kissed each other much. Mama kissed Daddy on the lips and went home to rest. My daughter Dawn Marie Clopton stayed with her at Mama's house. I finally left to go home and rest for a while. Different members of the family agreed to stay with Daddy and call the rest of us if something happened. I told them I would come back at mid-night and stay the rest of the night with Daddy. We then went home and ate and went to
bed. I returned to the hospital at mid-night and relieved Justin Michael Voigt my nephew. Justin went home. Daddy was asleep I don't think he ever knew I had came back. Daddy was hooked up to all sorts of machines and was breathing normal
except for there was bubbles on his lips. I sat down beside him and began watching TV. Sometime around 2:30AM the nurse came running in and said he has stopped breathing. The sad thing is that I didn't even know it until the nurse came in and
announced it. I was watching some late night wrestling show. The nurses tried to revive Daddy with the electric paddles but the machine would not work. Then they stuck a very large needle in Daddy's chest, I suppose into his heart to try to start
it beating again. At this time they ran me out of the room and continued to try to revive Daddy. A few minutes later they came out and told me he was gone. All I could think of was how was I going to tell Mama that Daddy was dead. I went to the phone and
called Mama, Dawn Marie answered I think or I asked to talk to Dawn Marie. I told Dawn that Grandpa had died and asked her if she thought she could handle it when I told Mama. Dawn Marie said yes and I told her about Daddy dying. I then told Mama. I
called Billie and the rest of the family. Everyone came back down to the hospital, the funeral home personnel picked up Daddy's body and we all went to Mama's to prepare ourselves for the funeral. THOMAS LATHON CLOPTON JR. and RUBY IRENE SMITH121 were married on 5 November 1932 in LEE COUNTY, LEE, TEXAS, USA. MARRIED BY REV. JOHN CAMERON, IN HIS HOUSE THOMAS LATHON AND ERNIE CECIL MARRIED SISTERS RUBY AND WINNIE SMITH RUBY IRENE SMITH was born on 8 October 1912 in LEE COUNTY, LEE, TEXAS, USA. BORN IN JOE BROWN HOUSE AT ROBERTSON PLACE IN LEE COUNTY She died on 8 June 1997 in AUSTIN, TRAVIS, TEXAS, USA. MAMA DIED OF SUSPECTED LIVER CANCER AFTER A LONG PERIOD OF ILLNESS. SHE DIED AT SEATON HOSPITAL, AUSTIN, TEXAS. FAY AND FLO WERE PRESENT WITH HER. MORRIS WAS IN FLORIDA She was buried on 13 June 1997 in LOWER KNOBBS CEMETERY, LEE, TEXAS, USA. THE WEATHER WAS VERY WET THE DURING THE PERIOD MAMA DIED. MORRIS CLOPTON CONVIENCED THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER TO PUT SOME GRAVEL ON THE ROAD DOWN TO THE LOWER KNOBBS CEMETERY. THE GRAVESIDE SERVICE WAS HELD UNDER A TENT IN THE YARD OF THE CHURCH AT THE UPPER KNOBBS CEMETERY. ALL THE GRANDSONS,JAY CALVIN PACE, RAY ALVIN PACE, JUSTIN MICHAEL VOIGT, JEFFERY REGAN VOIGT, THOMAS MORRIS CLOPTON, CHRISTOPHER SHAWN CLOPTON, WERE PALLBEARERS. WE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO PLACE MAMA'S CASKET IN A FOUR WHEEL DRIVE PICKUP BUT THE HEARSE WAS ABLE TO DRIVE DOWN TO THE LOWER KNOBBS CEMETERY. MAMA MADE REFRENCE TO A REV. JOHNNY PECKARINI AS BEING THE FIRST
PENTECOSTAL PREACHER IN LEE COUNTY. MAMA SAID THAT GERTRUDE, IRENE, BO, DESSA AND SYLVESTER GOT INVOLVED IN PENTECOST. July 26, 1995 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED CONVERSATIONS 20 MAY 1991 Ruby Irene (Smith) Clopton, my mother, and Willie Josephine (Smith) Nichols talking with Morris Lathon Clopton When they were small girls something about a Walter Carter, a neighbor that lived across the Cameron pasture closer to the Blue Branch School. Ruby says he was coming to bring food to their house because Jessie Tulle Smith and Martha Elizabeth Brown my grand parents were sick with the flu this was in 1918. Jessie and Winnie Velma Smith got sick first. Then Martha got sick. Ruby said she stood on a chair at the foot of the bed and grandpa Jessie told her which rings to make on the phone to contact Mr. Carter. Ruby informed Mr. Carter of the condition of the family. Mr. Carter informed William Mark Smith, brother to Jessie of the sickness in the family. Mark was unable to come because of sickness in his own family. So Mr. Carter became the caregiver during this time of trouble. He would come every day with food. Ruby said he had a bucket with biscuits and bacon wrapped up in a towel in it. Aunt Mint (Rebecca Armintie (Brown) Clopton and Ernie Cecil Clopton and Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr. also brought food for the family. Ruby made a comment that Ernie and Aunt Mint (Ernie Cecil Clopton and Rebecca Mintie (Brown) Clopton) came over and took the clothes in and that her and mama (Martha) finished the wash. Ruby said that mama (Martha) fell in at the door and she was finally able to get her up to get her to bed. Ruby said poppa (Jessie) couldn't get up every time he got up he would just faint. Ruby said they had gotten the clothes hung up but mama (Martha) was unable to get up and Ruby could not reach the clothes line to get the clothes in. Ernie, Aunt Mint and Lathon (Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr.) Came over and took the clothes down and brought them inside the back door but they didn't come in the house. Ruby said that they bought food over also. Ruby said that if it hadn't been for the telephones more people would have died. But that people would crank up the old phone and tell of someone they knew was sick. Like Hugh Jackson and Mr. Carter. Ruby was the last one well enough to stay up, when she had to give up and go to bed. When this happened a nurse was sent out to take care of the family. Ruby says she does not know where the nurse came from but supposed she was from Lexington. The nurse used Martha's coat to go to the pens next to the house and let the cows and pigs out to fend for themselves. Ruby said it was the only coat mama (Martha) had a good long coat. When the nurse came back inside while trying to warm up got to close to the stove and burned a hole in Martha's coat. Apparently this was a very bad time because Ruby said that she was the only one able to stay up and take care of the rest of the family. The nurse who came to help out got sick and had to leave. Ruby said finally Aunt Cora and Uncle Carvin (Cora Brown and Carvin Clopton) loaded all of them Jessie, Martha, Ruby, Winnie into a wagon with a sheet over them. Carvin lived over on the old Rheemes place the other side of Uncle Tom's place (Thomas Lathon Clopton Sr.) was married to Rebecca Mintie Brown sister to Martha and Cora Brown. Ruby made a comment that Winnie asked her if she had ever seen anything going on while they were at Aunt Cora's and Uncle Carvin's. I inquired as to what she meant and Ruby said they had seen Cora and Carvin having sex but she had never said anything. Willie and Ruby laughed as they remembered these incidents. Ruby made a comment to me that Morris you don't know we didn't talk about things like that back then. Willie and Ruby said that if you talked about such things as sex you got your mouth washed out with soap. When the sickness ran its course Jessie, Martha, Ruby, Winnie, returned home. Ruby said someone had gathered up all their chickens and put them down in the cellar. They had all their canned fruit and vegetables and potatoes in the cellar also. The chickens had broken everything and ruined the potatoes. Ruby said that all that was left was one old hen someone had stolen all the rest. Ruby made the comment that "talk about being hard" this was hard times. Ruby made a comment that nobody was able to go to any funerals or anything. Willie said something about Uncle Mark's wife and the twins being buried in the same casket. Ruby said that Aunt Ella, the baby and the twins all died at the same time but she does not think they were buried in the same casket. Ruby said Dismukes and Hugh Jackson made the casket, as they were about the only ones able to get about. The conversation waned, wondered about a Barney Stifflemire. Morris asked if Carvin had any kids then? Ruby and Willie both said that they thought Ina was born at that time. Willie and Ruby said that Ina Clopton was the same age as Winnie Smith. During this discussion of the birth dates of Ina and Winnie Morris made the comment that Ruby was only six or seven as this was 1918 and she was born in 1912. Willie said something about Uncle Mark, which prompted Morris to ask if Uncle Mark lived in the same area? Ruby tried to tell me where Uncle Mark lived; Willie said that he lived this side of coal hill on the Lexington highway. Morris said he didn't remember where coal hill was. Ruby asked if he remembered the old Fisher place where Fisher killed that man. Then she asked if I remembered the Bob McCord place where Ruby and Lathon had lived. Uncle Mark lived further down closer to Blue (Blue Branch Community). Willie said that they lived about the same distance one way from Blue as Uncle Mark lived the other way from Blue. Morris asked about the area to the rear of the Smith house over toward Thomas Lathon Clopton's place. Ruby said that her and Winnie used to walk from where they lived (Ernie, Winnie, Lathon and Ruby) in the little one room house at the gate going into Uncle Tom's place. This is a distance of about five miles by road maybe three straight across the pastures. This walk was made with a pack containing daddy's shoes (Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr.), a change of clothes, diapers, change of clothes for Ruby and baby (Alma Fayrene Clopton) on her back, Ruby was carrying Faye in her arms. Ruby said she had to clumb three fences in her trek across the Brenham place and Robinson place and Sherrell place to her mama's house. Ruby said that her mama (Martha) could see her coming across the Robinson place and would usually come down to meet them. Willie stated that yes they could see them coming across the Robinson place. Willie and Ruby stated that it was nothing to walk like that back then but what if young mothers had to walk like that today it would kill them. Morris asked if Uncle Carvin didn't live down there too? Ruby said that Carvin lived on the Rheemes place near Uncle Tom's place then they moved to Moab from there. Then the next place that she could remember Carvin living was over by Blue where you came around by Jess Brenham's. Willie said it was real sandy there, both her and Ruby said it was near a little bridge just before you got to the Blue school house. Discussion ensued about them living in Refugio but Ruby said no that was Carlton that lived in Refugio. Morris asked about Annabelle going to Georgetown? Ruby said she didn't know how this all transpired. Conversation ensued about Aunt Alice (Alice Cornelia Clopton) and Ada (Ada Editha Clopton) and Hugh Clopton still living down around Gonzales, Texas. Willie said they must have because she recalled grandma (Alice) talking about Uncle Tom whipping Ed (Eddie Lee Clopton) with a whip and Ed was just a baby. Morris asked if Uncle Tom was drunk and both Willie and Ruby stated that no he was just a mean old man. The conversation ensued that Morris stated that daddy (Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr.) had said that old man Hugh was mean. Both Willie and Ruby said that yes but grandpa (Thomas Lathon Clopton Sr.) was a mean man. Morris recalled an incident of daddy telling about Tom trying to whip him with a fire poker. Ruby said yes this took place at the Clopton place after they were married Tom tried to whip daddy with the fire poker and would have if daddy had not had a chair to protect himself with.
Willie and Ruby recounted how mean Tom was to all the children. Ruby told about Aunt Alma (Alma Blossie Clopton) being sick with a kidney infection and unable to go to the fields and Aunt Mint whipping her with the belt until she just kind of rolled off the step onto the ground. Aunt Mint did it because if she had not whipped her Uncle Tom would have whipped Alma. Willie and Ruby also said that if Aunt Mint didn't whip the kids Uncle Tom would whip her too. Willie and Ruby said that when the other kids came along they got away with murder. This is the children born to Mintie and Tom (Gertrude, Irene, Odessa, Sylvester). Morris stated that he heard that Tom and Ollie (brothers) got into a fight and that was the reason Ollie left home and went to Oklahoma. Willie and Ruby agreed that, they had heard the same thing. Morris asked why Les Clopton (John Lester Clopton) was always around. Ruby said that Les came to Uncle Tom's more than any of the rest of the family. Comments were made about Les's wife never coming around. No one knows or discusses why this was so. Ruby said that she guessed it wasn't nice to talk about the dead but that he (Tom) caused a lot of problems in hers and daddy's marriage. Apparently Tom would take daddy and Ernie out drinking. Ruby said that Tom would hook up with any old slut and bring her home; Josie King was one he brought home. Alma was in the hospital at in Austin at this time having her appendix removed. Tom, Carvin, Ernie, and Lathon went to Austin to see Alma; they took this Josie King along with them. Then returned from Austin and she spent the night at Tom's and Mint's house. Aunt Mint was there at the house also. Morris said that he didn't understand how Carvin, Carlton and Archie all wound up in World War One? Conversation ensued about the age differences between Carvin, Carlton and Archie.
Then Morris mentioned about the conversation he had with Irene (Ada's daughter). Ruby said that she had talked to Irene for about forty-five minutes. Ruby stated that Irene told her that Irene was not really Brown's daughter but rather the daughter of Joe Nichols and Ada. Joe was married to Alice, Ada's sister. Willie said that yes she had heard this also. Morris made a comment about Carlton staying or visiting Ollie in Oklahoma quite frequently. Willie and Ruby recounted about Ada hiding out by the bridge with the shotgun to shoot her husband Robert Brown when he was returning from one of his tryst with some other women. Ada shot at Robert Brown but missed him. Ruby was commenting about Irene cussing and carrying on during her conversation with her. Willie and Ruby both felt that Iva Brown sister to Irene could tell more about the past if she had the wherewithal to sit and talk. Willie said her mind goes and comes. Ruby asked Willie if Lawrence wasn't born down in Jackson County. Willie said yes, Lawrence was born down in Jackson County. Ina is in a rest home. Ethel doesn't know anything, Ruby said she tried to talk to Ethel but Ethel couldn't carry on a coherent conversation. Something about someone being given away as an infant and reared by someone else??? Rachel Modean Clopton was given to Aunt Emma Brown, Martha's sister. Hamp and Emma Brown reared modean because her mother died shortly after Modean was born. Rachel Modean (Crouch) Clopton had "milk leg" was taken to Austin and died in the hospital. Daddy (Thomas Lathon Clopton Jr.) said he was about four years old when this happened, his mother died. Much conversation ensued about old bibles for any of the children of Hugh Clopton, Thomas, Lester, Ollie, Alice, Ada etc. but no one seems to know anything about any of the bibles. July 29, 1995 - 1 August 1995 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED CONVERSATIONS Morris Lathon Clopton and Ruby Irene (Smith) Clopton 16-17 October 1992 Morris - Where did ya'll live when you first got married? What did you do for a living?
Ruby - In the little rent house up by the gate on the Clopton place. Ernie and Winnie and Lathon and Ruby lived in this one room house. Both young married couples. Daddy chopped wood for 50 cents a day. Thinks he got a dollar a cord for the wood. At the same time when the grapes were ready for harvest we got out into the sand hills and gathered grapes. Uncle Ernie made a little cart that was pulled by the one little ole mare we had. Winnie and me would ride on the cart because we were both pregnant. Daddy and Ernie would take the grapes to McDade or anywhere they could to sell them. Morris - What did you do before you got married? The same things or something different?
Ruby - We got married when Daddy was 24 or 25, we got married in October Daddy was 25. We got married in 32.
Morris - Daddy was born in 1908. That would have made him 24. They lived in Gonzales didn't they? When did they move back to Lee County?
Ruby - That's another question, I don't know. When we all became acquainted with them they lived down on the Purser place.
Morris - Where is the Purser place?
Ruby - Down close to Lexington. I can remember we used to go down there and spend the day visiting, feed the hogs. They fed a kind of hog brand grain; Ernie and Lathon would make out like they were eating it and get Winnie and me to eat it. In reality they weren't eating theirs but we did. They moved from there over to the old home place.
Morris - What did grandpa Clopton do just farm?
Ruby - Yes but he never did just settle down to farm.
Morris - Didn't he marry Mint when he moved back to Lee County?
Ruby - Yes they lived over on the old Harrison place, over there by the Sanders cemetery.
Morris - Well they must have moved back about 1910 because Daddy was born in Gonzales and his mama died when he was four.
Ruby - Yes that's right because Ernie and Modean were born when they lived on the Harrison place.
Morris - The Sanders cemetery where Uncle Ernie is buried?
Ruby - Yes on the old Harrison place, the grandma Harrison's house. I heard mama talk about Uncle Tom taking care of Rachel because she was sick all the time she was carrying Modean. He took her to San Antonio, no I mean Austin. Rachel died in Austin after Modean was born. During this time Uncle Tom was messing around with Mintie. I never understood how they got together but mama said something about Mintie going over there to take care of Rachel. I guess that's where it got started. Uncle Tom used to come over to the fields where mama, Mintie and Cora were working and wait at the end of the row to talk to Mintie, or put a note under a rock for her.
Morris - Where did Carvin and Carlton live, did Carvin live down there too?
Ruby - Something about Carvin lived in Adina, and his great, great, great grandmother, unable to make out what is being said. Winnie has a picture but I don't have one because someone gave Winnie the picture but not me. Can't make out whom the picture is of. Something about she has the Clopton hair
Morris - Wasn't Cora picking cotton at the same time with grandma, Mintie and the rest of the girls?
Ruby - I guess she was. I never heard mama talk about Uncle Carvin and Cora.
Morris - I wonder about old man Hugh Clopton was he still alive at this time? Where was his old farm? Grandpa was about 19 when he got married. I wonder when they moved down in this area.
Ruby - When was the first child born?
Morris - You mean Archie?
Ruby - Yes Much conversation ensued about Old man Hugh Clopton and Phoebe and when they might have married, when they might have moved from Milam County. What connection there is to the Bates? What is the correct spelling of McCullock? Mama kept reiterating that they just didn't talk about such things back then, as they were too busy trying to eak out a living. Mention of the name Charles Alford gave me, a Miles Clopton, but I never found a Miles Clopton in Texas. Mama wondered why no records were kept, wasn't the preacher supposed to keep those records. Everybody went to funerals back then, you showed your respect. How many of Hugh's kids were alive when he died? How many came to the funeral? Mama said she didn't remember much about the funeral. Something about a bow-legged preacher stuck in her mind. The number of wives that Hugh had. Then mention was made of Ab being like him. Morris asks how many times had Ab married. Mama said four times. Mention was made of all Abe's kids. James, Ordney, Richard, Lester, Billie, Myrle. Schooling was the least of Ab's worries. They never stayed long enough in one place to go to school. Ab never learned to manage their money. Mama said her and Daddy never had anything but they managed with what they had.
Morris - What about old man Tom Clopton, when did they buy the Clopton place? What did they do farm or ranch?
Ruby - I don't know when they moved to the Clopton place. You know what we called the Yeaugh
Morris - I remember the house with the well out front.
Ruby - Yes they built on to the house, it was just a long building to start. They built on a new room over here, and then they built a back room and a screen porch on the back, that's where daddy and Ernie slept. Aunt Alma slept in the new room. When Bo came along him and his daddy slept in the living room, Sylvester slept with his mama, they had two beds in the living room. There was just a path way between the two beds and a fireplace. Gertrude and Dessa slept in the bedroom between the Kitchen and the living room.
Morris - That's all the kids that were home, what about Clarence and Ab, Myrtle?
Ruby - Myrtle died while they were at Adina.
Morris - Unclear what is being said, something about Uncle Clarence and Ed being born about the same time. Yet where is Ed during this time? I do not have Ab's birth date.
Ruby - Winnie has all this info when she comes back home I will go out there with my papers and we will sit down and compare information. Don't you have Ab death certificate, isn't his birth date on that?
Morris - No I don't have anything about Ab. I did find piece of paper the other day with Aunt Annabelle and Denzil's name and some information on it. I know Archie was born and went to WWI in 1917. I have something about Robert. Cant' make out what is being said. I have Fred, Barney, Clyde, Myrtle, and Clarence. With Clarence being born in 1900 and Ed being born in 1900 if Phoebe was Ed's mama she was about 31 years old. Phoebe died in 1906. Did Hugh and grandpa Tom Clopton all live together? What were they doing down in there farming? Ruby - Yes they all lived down in there together around Gonzales. Aunt Alice and them did not move up here when Uncle Tom did. They stayed down around Gonzales and Flatonia.
Morris - Daddy was born in 1908 in Gonzales. I remember being down in here at Aunt Alice's at the old Wolfe place.
Ruby - When Aunt Alice and them moved back up here they lived in that little rent house over at Uncle Tom's. The little one room house at the gate that Daddy and me lived in when we were first married.
Morris - You mean Joe Nichols, Aunt Alice, Lawrence, Maybelle, and Henry all lived there.
Ruby - I think Lawrence must have come up before they did and worked for Uncle Tom and stayed with Uncle Tom.
Morris - When did they move to the Wolfe place? I remember them living there when Joe Nichols died. Where did Johnny burn his hand? Did Willie and Lawrence live on the Wolfe place also?
Ruby - Willie and Lawrence lived on Dr. Woods place. Johnny burned his hand when they lived on the Wolfe place. Johnny burned his hand at Uncle Ernie and Aunt Winnie's when they lived on the Elmo Jurden place. Ruby, Lathon, Lawrence, Willie, Ernie, and Winnie were picking pecans. Johnny's blanket caught on fire from the fire built to keep the kids warm.
Morris - Any way they had to come back up here between 1908 and 1921 because old man Hugh died in 1921 at the old Clopton place.
Ruby - I remember hearing about them moving back up here because Ernie and Modean was born at over there.
Morris - Where at the Purser place?
Ruby - No at the old Harrison place. I don't know if they still lived on the old Harrison place when Uncle Tom and Aunt Mint married.
Morris - They didn't wait too long because Rachel died in 1912 and he married Mintie in 1913. This Ada Clopton married Robert Brown while they were down in Gonzales. Alice married Joe Nichols down in that area also.
Ruby - Yes down around Weimar.
Morris - Yes but Joe Nichols came from Missouri or some place.
Ruby - I don't know.
Morris - That's what I have on this piece of paper. I wonder did Ada and Alice live together?
Ruby - Yes I think they all lived close together. I have talked to Iva, she is older than Irene, but Iva doesn't know anything either.
Morris - Well you said something about this Irene Brown's mama Ada running around. That both Robert and Ada were running around?
Ruby - I don't know how old Irene is she must be older than Lawrence, no she is younger than Lawrence.
Morris - Doesn't anyone try to contact Lester's kids for these reunions?
Ruby - Yes one time Dessa sent out letters inviting them to the reunion.
Morris - Back to you and Daddy. What was Daddy doing when you got married, working on the farm? He wasn't making any money?
Ruby - No he was working as a day laborer.
Morris - How did you think y'all could live? True love huh? Ruby - We made it. We had our own cow, Aunt Mint gave us 12 ole hens we put them in a pen and fed them. Of course they had hogs, they would kill a hog and we would have our own meat. They had cows so we had butter and milk. They gathered corn. Daddy and Uncle Ernie had a little patch of corn together. Daddy and Uncle Ernie argued over which one had taken care of the corn the most. We would gather the corn and take it to the mill.
Morris - Did you and Aunt Winnie get married at the same time?
Ruby - Three weeks apart.
Morris - Did you plan it that way?
Ruby - No Ernie wasn't going to get married; L.A. was still in the picture then.
Morris - Who?
Ruby - L.A. Smith
Morris - Who's L.A. Smith?
Ruby - Off the Sanders group.
Morris - Woman or man?
Ruby - Woman, See Ernie was in West Texas pulling Bolls when we married.
Morris - With whom?
Ruby - Ab or Clarence, I think it was Clarence. When Daddy wrote him back telling him that we had gotten married, he came right home and they got their license and they got married.
Morris - Are Faye and Lenora about the same age?
Ruby - Lenora was born the 25th of September and Faye the 25th of October. We went to a reunion in Lexington.
Morris - Did you have a car?
Ruby - Land's no we didn't have a car. We went with them; they had an ole T-model truck.
Morris - Who?
Ruby - Aunt Mint and Uncle Tom. It was an old flatbed truck with sides, when we got ready to go anywhere we would put up a sheet over that old thing and away we would go. Wrap them babies up and get in there and go.
Morris - Didn't you have a horse and wagon?
Ruby - Yes we had horses and wagons. That's the way we would go to mamas. Poppa would come get us in the wagon and we would go over and spend the night. It was too far too walk and I have walked over there and carried Faye, his clothes and my clothes and we had four fences to crawl through. I had a big thing across my shoulders to hold the clothes and a diaper bag and her (Fay) in my arms.
Morris - Did you go around the roads?
Ruby - No we went across the fields. I would have never made it around the roads. We followed cow trails and such across the fields.
Morris - How did Daddy know where you went?
Ruby - I told him when he left in the morning that's where I was going and that's where he was suppose to come to when he quit work.
Morris - How did he get over there, walk back too, ride a horse?
Ruby - Uncle Tom had them cutting wood for him and he had a truck he would take them to where the wood was to be cut and then bring them back home. Sometime he would drop him off there at mamas
Morris - What was he doing with this wood selling it? Ruby - Yeah
Morris - After y'all moved from there where did you go?
Ruby - The Robinson place.
Morris - Where is the Robinson place?
Ruby - You know where the old home place is, where I lived? The Robinson place is back over that way from there.
Morris - Back toward Blue?
Ruby - No toward the Knobbs.
Morris - Toward the Clopton place.
Ruby - Yes it was between grandma Smith's and the Clopton place.
Morris - Where you go past grandma Smith's place and turn left to go to the Clopton place was it out in there.
Ruby - Yes it was just out in the fields, I think the old house is still there. We had an ole mare; I don't know if Uncle Tom gave us the mare or what, somebody gave us an old mule. Poppa helped us farm that year. We raised turkeys. Daddy worked wherever he could work because peanuts were the big things then and they had to be shook by hand. From there we went back to the rent house on the Clopton place. We farmed the old Forbes place.
Morris - Did ya'll have to pay Tom anything?
Ruby - no we didn't pay any rent. We farmed the Forbes place on the halves.
Morris - Where was Ernie and Winnie during this time?
Ruby - No Ernie and them followed us, they moved to the Robinson place. We lived at the Robinson place when Flo was born. We moved back over to the Clopton place and Ernie and them moved to the Robinson place. And then we went to the Peat Bog.
Morris - Where is the Peat Bog?
Ruby - That's way down close to Lexington, between Lexington and Giddings out in the country, and we stayed down there.
Morris - What did he do down there cut Peat?
Ruby - Yes and work peanuts down in the country around there and then he went to work at Camp Swift.
Morris - Did you have a car then?
Ruby - Yeah he had an old car, but he usually stayed at mamas and I stayed down at the Peat Bog.
Morris - How did he get to Camp Swift?
Ruby - Well there was a bunch of them that worked at Camp Swift, they car-pooled. A bunch of the young men had jobs down there. Then we moved from there to Bastrop. No we didn't we moved from there over to the Brenham place.
Morris - Six years after you left the Robinson place I was born in Elgin.
Ruby - Yes but we lived on the Beasley place. Lot of conversation about this place and where it was but I can't understand what is being said. We moved to Bastrop when you were about four.
Morris - Where we move from there, to Friendship? Ruby - No we came back to mamas and stayed there and made a crop. So we rented a little house up there by Uncle Gus and them. We never moved into the little house because someone told him about Mr. Moore needing help at Friendship so we moved on to Friendship. We lived down at a little three room house on the Moore place until Christmas, you started to school there, then we moved up into the big house. And you were six years old. We lived somewhere else but I can't remember where. We lived in the tent; I don't know how I could forget about that.
Morris - What tent?
Ruby - We lived over on the old home place (Smith), I was so mad at your Daddy I could have killed him. This was after we moved form Bastrop. Much conversation about how this really got next to my pride having to live in a tent.
Note - I seem to recall Faye expressing great grief at having to live in this tent and carry her lunch to school. Something about always having a biscuit and that was all.
August 3, 1995 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED CONVERSATIONS 17 OCT 1992 Morris L. Clopton, Ruby Irene (Smith) Clopton, Alma Fayrene (Clopton) Pace, Betty Florene (Clopton) Voigt, Dawn Marie Clopton, Christopher Shawn Clopton, Tiffany Ann Pace Fay - I had to get my birth certificate changed.
Flo - What did your birth certificate say?
Fay - Alma Francis Clopton, I guess the Dr. did it I don't know; we had to go back and get a teacher and other people to certify that my name was Alma Fayrene Clopton. Mama and Daddy had to sign certificates and all my records had to be changed.
Morris - I'm sorry is the paper signed by a Carl Clopton as a witness?
Fay - No, I had to completely change my name. Everything the state had was Alma Francis Clopton, and I have been Alma Fayrene all my life.
Morris - Do you have copies of these birth certificates?
Fay - I think I have a little one.
Note - Morris found a copy of Alma Blossie Clopton's birth certificate signed b THOMAS LATHON CLOPTON JR. and RUBY IRENE SMITH had the following children: |